The Power of Personalized Donor Relationships with Manuel Mesa

Manuel: 00:00:00

And as we were walking back to the, to the car, asked me if I was busy

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on Tuesday, that Tuesday afternoon.

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Coming up and I said, no, for you.

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You know, tell me what you need.

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And he says, I need you to pick me

up and I need you to take me over

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to the cemetery so you can help

me pick my final resting place.

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Wendy: Welcome to The NonProfit

Nook, the podcast for nonprofit

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leaders, board members, and community

change makers who want to build

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stronger, smarter organizations.

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I'm your host, Wendy Kidd, a longtime

business owner and nonprofit leader,

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and I'm here to bring you real talk.

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Real tools and real stories to help

you thrive in the nonprofit world.

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I'll be talking with local nonprofit

leaders, community change makers

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and experts in everything from board

development to fundraising and digital

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tools, sharing real stories and

simple strategies you can actually use

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because running a nonprofit is hard,

but you don't have to do it alone.

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Let's get started.

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Welcome everybody.

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This is the Nonprofit Nook, and today we

have Manuel Mesa, a seasoned nonprofit

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strategist, philanthropy advisor, and

technology innovator with over 30 years

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of experience helping mission-driven

organizations grow and thrive.

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Manuel is the founder and CEO of

the Philanthropy Blueprint, where

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he helps nonprofits align their

boards data and development strategy

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because passion needs structure.

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He's also the co-founder and COO of

benevolent A CRM platform designed

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specifically for nonprofits to help them

manage relationships and drive impact.

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Over the years, Manuel has led

multimillion dollar capital campaigns,

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overseeing major construction and

renovation projects, and fundraising

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for organizations of all sizes, from

grassroots groups to major institutions,

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and as the current president of the Dallas

Chapter of the Association of Fundraising

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Professionals, he's helping to shape the

future of philanthropy in North Texas.

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Welcome, Manuel.

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Manuel: Thank you.

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Thank you for having me today, Wendy.

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I'm so glad to have you.

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Wendy: caveat guys.

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This guy's like my best friend,

so we are gonna have fun today.

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I invited Manuel to come and talk

about fundraising specifically in the

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nonprofit area, especially because he's

the president of the Dallas chapter

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of AFP and because he does so much

work with his clients in fundraising.

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So I wanted him to talk a little

bit about AFP today and what

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that is and who they serve.

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Manuel: Sure, thank you.

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the Association of Fundraising

Professionals is actually

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a global organization.

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the main headquarters is

in Virginia, but, there are

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approximately 250 chapters worldwide.

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And, as the Dallas Chapter President, I

the pleasure of serving, for: 2025

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prior to that, I served as,

treasurer for two years.

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But we help, non, we help fundraisers as

well as nonprofits through fundraising

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experiences, through conferences,

webinars, monthly luncheons, as well

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as resources that they have available

to them, either in person or online

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through the AFP Global website.

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Wendy: That's fantastic.

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And is this a paid membership?

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Do they need to pay for these

events in this education, or are

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some of these nonprofit funded?

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Nice, wonderful.

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Come do this for free.

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Manuel: Yeah.

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Un unfortunately, most of the

things are, are need a payment.

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Mm-hmm.

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to become a member, you, you need to pay.

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right now they're, they're

running a special though, actually

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AFP Global, I think it runs

through the end of August, or.

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The end.

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Yeah, the end of August, excuse me.

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And you get $50 discount whether you're,

a first time member or a returning

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member to renew your membership.

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And then the luncheons

are, are reasonable.

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They're only $35, for our luncheons.

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And then the conference itself,

usually runs about $295 for a day and

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a half conference, which just took

place in, early June of this year.

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Wendy: I missed it.

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I so wanted to go to that, but I heard

wonderful things from my nonprofit

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partners who did get to go to that.

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Um, who do you normally have as a

member of AFP from the nonprofits?

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Is it normally like the fundraising

director only, or do you typically have

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like eds or board members or whoever?

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Manuel: Yeah, so mostly.

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Paid professionals, either the

executive director, the director of

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development, whatever it might be

called at their institution, as well as

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development associates might be members.

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we don't normally see

volunteers lay leaders.

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we really encourage those individuals

that are paid through the organizations,

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through the nonprofits to join.

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Wendy: How do you stay informed about

what your nonprofit partners need?

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Manuel: we do that in, various ways.

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One, we send out a, a monthly

newsletter, which they can,

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respond to and ask for questions.

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right now we currently have 21 board

members on the Dallas Chapter board,

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and, we are all accessible either by

phone, email, text, and we encourage

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our members to reach out at any time.

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To ask any type of question.

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We also have, again, resources on our own

website as well as the AFP global website

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that allows them to, to learn more.

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But we've also, what we've started

to see is a community within a

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community where board, excuse me.

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Members of the chapter really start

to gravitate towards other members.

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And so they learn amongst

those smaller groups.

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And then when they really have a question

that's outside of their realm, that's

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when they reach out to possibly a board

member or AFP Global or one of our

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staff members at the AFP Dallas chapter.

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Wendy: That's so cool.

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I mean, honestly, that's the number one

reason to join any kind of organization

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like this, is that building your own

personal network and building those

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buddies that you can call and you

can say, oh my gosh, this happened.

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What do I do?

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So I love that so much for them.

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Um, something that I was really intrigued

with, with AFP, and I know you've

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heard me say this a million times, but.

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I love the donor Bill of Rights, so

I want you to specifically talk about

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what is the donor Bill of Rights?

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How did that come into existence?

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How can people take advantage of that?

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Manuel: Yeah, the, the donor

Bill of Rights was actually

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created I think in the 1970s.

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It was created, with assistance by

AFP global where they wanted to give

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the opportunity to donors, whether

they were giving $5 or $5 million, the

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opportunity to have their own rights

to understand what type of organization

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they're giving their dollars to.

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So for example.

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If I'm giving an organization

a $10,000 gift, I need to

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understand what my rights are.

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Are those $10, $10,000 truly

being used in, in the support

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that I anticipate it to be done?

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So, for example, if I give a $10,000

check to an organization and they

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tell me it's about, to support

the capital campaign that they're

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parti, you know, en embarking on.

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and I find out that those $10,000 are

actually being utilized to pay payroll.

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That is, that is part

of the Bill of Rights.

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It's, it's, you're misleading your donors

and it's really important for donors

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to understand that they have rights.

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we've also started to see

a real sw change, I would

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say starting, around COVID.

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Donors are becoming more sophisticated.

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They're really trying to understand

where their dollars are going.

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They also wanna understand the

percentage of every dollar that is

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actually going towards the mission

versus, um, what, what is covering e

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everyday expenses of the nonprofit.

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So for example, the goal is

that if someone donates a

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dollar, at least 70 to 80 cents.

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Of that dollar is actually

going towards the mission.

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And then the balance is to help offset,

you know, payroll infrastructure if

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you have a building, things like that.

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Um, and we definitely encourage

every nonprofit organization.

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To post their bill of rights,

um, the donor Bill of Rights and

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encourage donors to ask about it.

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The other good thing about that,

it, it allows you as a nonprofit

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to learn more about your donor,

learn about their sophistication

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when it comes to their gift.

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Not only that, but if they feel

comfortable with your answers,

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those are individuals that are

going to give again and again.

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Wendy: Absolutely.

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It's so important to honor what

their intent was for that money.

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Um, and I think that, you know, one

of the things that nonprofits are

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not so great at is communication.

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And once they get into the habit of

communicating with their donors and

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being more transparent instead of being

scared of that conversation, I think

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they'll find that that actually leads

to a much better relationship, which.

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In turn does mean more money

in the long run, right?

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Manuel: Correct.

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Yeah.

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You know, it's always, it's always good

to be in communication with your donor,

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whether it's good news or bad news.

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Yeah.

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You wanna be honest with them, right.

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Listen, we're all human, we're all gonna

make mistakes, but if you're upfront

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with your donors and you let them know

what's happening, again, like you just

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said, they might be willing to write

you another check because you are being.

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Upfront with them, you're being

honest and you're informing them,

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Hey, we're in a bit of trouble.

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Right.

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And you've been a long time supporter.

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Could you help us a

little bit more right now?

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Wendy: Absolutely.

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And I think it's also important to

talk about your operating expenses

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and why it's important to contribute

towards that too, not just the mission.

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So I, I think people are scared to ask

for that, and I think they're, I think I

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see a lot of people who are scared of that

because things like grants don't typically

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cover operating expenses, but you and I

both know operating expenses go to the

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people who are providing the services, and

that's, to me, is the most valuable money

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in any organization that they can get.

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And the more you have a better

relationship with donors, the more

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they understand that about those

operating expenses, and they're more

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willing to donate towards those too.

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Manuel: That is correct.

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They're also willing to open

up their network to you.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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So if, if you are identifying individuals

that you consider a major donor at

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$10,000 per gift and they have a network

of 50, 60 people and they introduce

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you to even 10% of those, right?

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So now you have five, six new donors

potentially at a level of whether

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it's zero to $10,000 or possibly more.

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And And they feel comfortable

in making those introductions

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on your behalf to their network.

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Wendy: Yeah, for sure.

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For sure.

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Now, I know that you have a success story

or two because you've worked with so many

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people in helping them tread these waters.

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I want you to give a little shout

out to some of the people who've

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done really well with your advice.

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Manuel: Yeah.

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so on a personal level, I've been an

executive director of three synagogues

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on the East coast of the United States,

and I've been really fortunate to meet

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hundreds of individuals that are just

amazing, whether they're large donors or

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not, they're just amazing individuals.

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But I had this one individual, I am

gonna use a, a, a different name just

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so that outta respect to his family,

although he's no longer living.

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so we'll, we'll call this individual.

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Sam, so Sam is so, so I

met Sam, at a synagogue.

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I was hired by a synagogue as the

executive director, and I was informed

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that, not only did I need to lead the,

the synagogue itself, we were also

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going to start a construction project

as well as, a capital campaign that

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they had started and stopped twice.

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We were going to reengage that

capital campaign, and they wanted

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me to meet Sam immediately.

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Because they wanted Sam to

donate a million dollars, right?

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Yeah.

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So I went back and I said,

okay, how is Sam involved?

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Right?

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So at this point, when I met Sam,

Sam was in his late eighties.

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he was not involved.

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He did not come to the synagogue

very often, if at all, and.

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There was really no way that I

was gonna pick up the phone and

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call Sam and say, Hey Sam, could

you gimme a million dollars?

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Yeah, right.

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That thought's not gonna work.

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Sam was gonna hang up on me.

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So, what I did was I sent, my

president and vice president and

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I asked them to give Sam an update

as to where the synagogue is and

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what the plans for the future are

for the next three to five years.

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Now Sam being a very sophisticated

donor at the time, he, at the

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end of the conversation, he

said, so aren't you gonna ask me?

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And, the board member said, ask you what?

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And he said, aren't you

gonna ask me for a donation?

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And unfortunately, they, they didn't ask

for a donation, but what they did say is.

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Manuel instructed us not

to ask you for a donation.

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So, all that, it being said, it went

well and, I followed up, with Sam and

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sent him a note and said, I'd love to

meet you, pick you up for lunch and,

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and let's get to know each other.

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so one of the things that I, I really

enjoyed through this relationship

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is that I feel I got more from

the relationship than Sam did.

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Sam, Sam was born, he was alive

during the Great Depression.

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we got to talk about that.

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We got to talk about his time

serving in the military, as well as.

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What it was like life,

what was life like for him?

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Right.

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Growing up during the Great Depression,

because his family was actually very

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successful already and they were

actually giving out bread during,

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while people were in the bread line.

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So they, they didn't feel the

pinch of the Great Depression.

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so I spent approximately six, the next

six or seven months getting to know Sam.

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I'd pick him up once a month.

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had the pleasure of picking him up, taking

him to his favorite restaurants and, um.

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We, we would eat, we would talk,

I would give him updates about the

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synagogue, and then I really got to

understand what he was looking for.

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And what he was looking for was a

return on investment for his donation.

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Right?

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He didn't wanna just donate and.

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It was gonna cover this, this, and this.

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He really wanted us to be able to make

money, in return for his investment.

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So what I went to him and I said, why

don't you help us beautify your, your,

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the ballroom, which is already named in

your family name, and at the same time,

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let's upgrade the, the, the kitchen.

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And with that, we can

generate revenue over time.

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Um, and so I, I did that I think in

my seventh month, getting to know him.

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And, I'm happy to report that,

before I left that organization,

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to my understanding, he

donated a little over $1.5

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million Wow.

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to help beautify that space

and in return, generate ongoing

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revenue for the organization.

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Um, and again, I, I got

so much more from Sam.

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Then I think I gave to him, but

it was a true pleasure to get

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to spend so much time with him.

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Wendy: That is so cool.

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I love that.

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I, I wish I could know, Sam,

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but that's the thing, right?

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You just gotta get to know people

and get to know what their interest

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is and speak to that interest.

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Manuel: Yeah.

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So, and, and, and by the way, you know.

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I, I always encourage fundraisers not

to see individuals as piggy banks.

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Right.

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Right.

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They're human beings.

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Mm-hmm.

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So one of the things I learned

through Sam is really that, and,

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and just one final piece on Sam.

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Um, I gave him a private

tour one Sunday afternoon.

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Of a, of a new piece of the, a new part

of the building that we were building out.

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And I did it on purpose on a Sunday.

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'cause I didn't want him to be

bombarded by individuals because

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again, he didn't spend a lot of

time in the space, in the synagogue.

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And, he never had a biological children.

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He had three stepchildren.

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One of his, sons drove him, picked

and he took the tour with us.

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And as we were walking back to the, to

the car, uh, Sam asked me if I was busy

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on Tuesday, that Tuesday afternoon.

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Uh, coming up and I said, no, for you.

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You know, tell me what you need.

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And he says, I need you to pick me

up and I need you to take me over

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to the cemetery so you can help

me pick my final resting place.

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Oh, wow.

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So I, I looked at him, I said, are, are

you sure you're not talking to Michael?

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And he goes, no, I, I

I want you to do that.

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That's the kind of friendship

that we've created.

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And, um.

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I took him and we spent some time, touring

and, and he picked, a final resting place

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for him and his wife, who was already

unfortunately sick and, and didn't, I, I,

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I wanna say she passed within about six

to eight months after, after that time.

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: 00:16:07

Wendy: Wow.

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: 00:16:07

What an honor.

317

: 00:16:08

What an honor.

318

: 00:16:09

Yeah.

319

: 00:16:09

Is that like the favorite

thing of your job?

320

: 00:16:12

I mean, I know you do so many things.

321

: 00:16:13

What, what's the favorite

thing you get to do?

322

: 00:16:16

Manuel: Asking for money,

323

: 00:16:19

Wendy: not what I thought

you were gonna say.

324

: 00:16:21

Manuel: Asking for money

and getting to know people.

325

: 00:16:23

Yeah.

326

: 00:16:23

Really it's, it's, it's a true pleasure.

327

: 00:16:26

You, you people come with

so many different stories.

328

: 00:16:28

How did they make their wealth?

329

: 00:16:30

How do they spend their wealth?

330

: 00:16:32

Um, who do they want to give it to?

331

: 00:16:34

Um, and during that time, you get

to really get to know them and

332

: 00:16:36

you get to see the real person.

333

: 00:16:38

Yeah.

334

: 00:16:38

Um, and again, for me,

they're not piggy banks.

335

: 00:16:41

They really aren't.

336

: 00:16:42

because, you know, my goal one day is to

be on the other side of that, you know,

337

: 00:16:46

have someone asking me for a donation.

338

: 00:16:48

And I want them to really know who

I am and and what I believe in.

339

: 00:16:51

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

340

: 00:16:54

What do you wish

nonprofits understood more?

341

: 00:16:58

There's a lot, but I would say one of

the first things is to make sure that

342

: 00:17:02

your organization is donor-centric.

343

: 00:17:05

Make sure that you focus on the donor.

344

: 00:17:08

What does the donor need and

want from the organization?

345

: 00:17:11

Right.

346

: 00:17:11

Not every donor is going to give money.

347

: 00:17:14

But they might give time, they might

open up their network of individuals

348

: 00:17:18

or corporations or foundations.

349

: 00:17:20

Mm-hmm.

350

: 00:17:20

To you.

351

: 00:17:21

Right?

352

: 00:17:22

Be, I'm not saying you have to

be their best friend, but you

353

: 00:17:25

need to know your donor, right?

354

: 00:17:26

Mm-hmm.

355

: 00:17:26

And it's not just when you need them, you

need to always be there for your donor.

356

: 00:17:31

Yeah.

357

: 00:17:31

that's one thing that I have

learned working at synagogues.

358

: 00:17:35

Um, I've had donors that have given

to the organization, have served as

359

: 00:17:39

board members and have passed away.

360

: 00:17:42

And I think at, at that point when

I'm there to, at the funeral as the

361

: 00:17:46

executive director helping, making sure

that the ceremony goes off without a

362

: 00:17:51

hitch and making sure that they get

to their final resting place is, is

363

: 00:17:55

important and is more of important

than even getting that donation.

364

: 00:17:59

Mm-hmm.

365

: 00:18:00

Now, most fundraisers are never

gonna get to that point, right.

366

: 00:18:03

Unless you're an ED of an

organization like that, but.

367

: 00:18:07

Fundraisers need to understand that

donors are human beings just like

368

: 00:18:10

we are, and you need to make sure

that you're giving them the ample

369

: 00:18:16

feedback and time that they deserve.

370

: 00:18:18

Wendy: Sure, sure.

371

: 00:18:20

What's the number one thing nonprofits can

do to be more successful in fundraising?

372

: 00:18:24

I know you said donor-centric was

the thing they need to understand

373

: 00:18:27

more, but what can they do?

374

: 00:18:28

What's an action step?

375

: 00:18:31

Manuel: Communication.

376

: 00:18:32

Right?

377

: 00:18:33

Yeah.

378

: 00:18:33

And I don't mean mass emails every

month that say the same things, right?

379

: 00:18:37

Mm-hmm.

380

: 00:18:37

one of, one of the ways you can do that

is segment your, your communication.

381

: 00:18:41

So if you have a hundred donors,

10 of them are your top donors,

382

: 00:18:45

how do you communicate with them?

383

: 00:18:47

Mm-hmm.

384

: 00:18:47

Versus how do you communicate

with someone who gives you $25 a

385

: 00:18:50

month on a monthly giving program?

386

: 00:18:53

So understand your, your audience,

understand your donors, um, making,

387

: 00:18:57

making sure you're also having.

388

: 00:18:59

Contact not just with your major

donors, but your monthly donors.

389

: 00:19:03

Um, it is, it's, it's been proven that

individuals that give on a monthly

390

: 00:19:07

basis actually can be asked again and

sometimes become your largest donors.

391

: 00:19:12

Because if you're giving monthly,

that's sometimes a larger commitment.

392

: 00:19:17

Than giving a onetime gift.

393

: 00:19:19

Wendy: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

394

: 00:19:21

I think that you're giving me more

ideas for another podcast episode.

395

: 00:19:24

Levels of communication.

396

: 00:19:26

Okay.

397

: 00:19:27

All right.

398

: 00:19:27

Well, I, I know we're running

outta time here, but I wanna,

399

: 00:19:30

cover a couple more things.

400

: 00:19:31

So, how can people get involved

with AFP and learn all these skills

401

: 00:19:36

when it comes to fundraising?

402

: 00:19:38

Manuel: Yeah, so getting involved at AFP

is absolutely the easiest thing to do.

403

: 00:19:42

Just go to our website.

404

: 00:19:44

it's afp dallas.org,

405

: 00:19:45

I believe.

406

: 00:19:46

and you can go ahead and

you'll see upcoming events.

407

: 00:19:49

Our next one is in August.

408

: 00:19:51

We have a, a great speaker, a past

president of our chapter, as well

409

: 00:19:55

as a fundraiser, I believe, with

at least 20 years of experience.

410

: 00:19:59

And, she'll be giving some great.

411

: 00:20:00

Updates as well as there's an opportunity

to network before the luncheon.

412

: 00:20:05

Um, at the same time, you can

reach out to our AFP Dallas.

413

: 00:20:09

Headquarters.

414

: 00:20:10

essentially we, we have, two individuals

that work for us part-time and, um,

415

: 00:20:15

they will answer any questions, but

you can also go to afp global.org

416

: 00:20:20

and you can find your local chapter.

417

: 00:20:22

If you're not in the Dallas

area, I definitely recommend also

418

: 00:20:24

looking at the Fort Worth chapter.

419

: 00:20:26

Um, my counterpart there, Hillary

is an absolutely amazing young lady.

420

: 00:20:30

we do a lot of work together.

421

: 00:20:32

We actually text on a weekly

basis, to commiserate, um, as,

422

: 00:20:36

as president, yes, as presidents.

423

: 00:20:38

so, but, yeah, I, that,

that's really the easiest way.

424

: 00:20:42

And by the way, if you're not

a member of the chapter, you

425

: 00:20:44

can still attend a luncheon.

426

: 00:20:45

If you can't afford it, we'll

be happy to cover it for you.

427

: 00:20:48

'cause we really want you to get that

experience and get that up opportunity

428

: 00:20:51

to network with other fundraisers that

are in the same field that you are.

429

: 00:20:55

Wendy: That's awesome.

430

: 00:20:56

Um, any particular social media

channels that AFP is on that they

431

: 00:20:59

can follow you're good works.

432

: 00:21:01

Manuel: All of them.

433

: 00:21:02

LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook.

434

: 00:21:04

But I would say that LinkedIn

is our biggest following.

435

: 00:21:06

Mm-hmm.

436

: 00:21:06

Um, and you can look us up

either for the greater Dallas

437

: 00:21:09

chapter or again, AFP global.

438

: 00:21:12

And when you go to AFP Global, I think

they have like 400,000 followers,

439

: 00:21:16

which is absolutely amazing.

440

: 00:21:18

And, you can, you can find them there.

441

: 00:21:20

Wendy: Okay.

442

: 00:21:20

Is there anything that we haven't

talked about that you wanted

443

: 00:21:23

to mention while you're here?

444

: 00:21:25

Manuel: I, I just wanna mention

that, I think this is a, a

445

: 00:21:28

great opportunity, your podcast.

446

: 00:21:30

I really, really appreciate

being one of your first guests.

447

: 00:21:33

I hope I did a good job.

448

: 00:21:35

I think you did a great job.

449

: 00:21:37

And, and, really, you know,

can, can we promote the July?

450

: 00:21:41

Oh, that'll be after the fact.

451

: 00:21:42

Wendy: Yeah, that'll be

after this, after the fact.

452

: 00:21:44

So if anybody came to the

North Texas Giving Day workshop

453

: 00:21:46

in July, thanks for coming.

454

: 00:21:49

And you'll see Manuel there as well.

455

: 00:21:51

Yeah.

456

: 00:21:51

So thanks for joining us, but

hopefully we'll have other educational

457

: 00:21:54

events on the calendar soon.

458

: 00:21:56

definitely got a couple ideas already

in the hopper for September, so

459

: 00:21:59

we'll be talking about that soon.

460

: 00:22:00

For sure.

461

: 00:22:01

For sure.

462

: 00:22:02

Awesome.

463

: 00:22:02

Well, thank you so much, Manuel.

464

: 00:22:04

It was so much fun having you

as one of my first guests.

465

: 00:22:06

Manuel: Thank you.

466

: 00:22:07

I really appreciate

the opportunity, Wendy.

467

: 00:22:09

Wendy: All right.

468

: 00:22:09

Bye guys.

469

: 00:22:10

Bye-bye.

470

: 00:22:12

Thanks for listening

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471

: 00:22:14

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472

: 00:22:17

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473

: 00:22:20

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474

: 00:22:23

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475

: 00:22:27

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476

: 00:22:30

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477

: 00:22:32

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478

: 00:22:37

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479

: 00:22:39

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